Jesus, A Brief Look at the Evidence.
Discussion April 11th, 2009There may be some evidence claiming a Jesus existed and if he actually did exist, he most definitely isn’t the one that you’re probably thinking about. So let us go over the sources for the life of Jesus and see what we can come up with.
We will start with the Roman’s. They were meticulous for keeping records and in fact there are hundreds of surviving documents from the 1st century. Documents from historians, philosophers, religious thinkers, public officials, poets, and even private persons have been discovered all from the 1st century. How many of these sources made reference to Jesus? Zero. There were no birth records, no correspondences, no literary discussions, no personal reflections, nothing at all that mentioned a Jesus in any way at any time… you’d think there would be something, especially after the way Mel Gibson portrays Jesus in “Passion of the Christ”.
Finally at 112 C.E. Pliny the Younger, a Roman governor of Bithynia-Pontus made mention of Jesus. He was concerned about the prosecution of Christians and mentioned that they were in a range of social classes and that they worshiped Jesus as a god, there was no reference to the life and teachings of him or anything else.
The second, from a Roman historian named Suetonius who only mentions “Chrestus” aka “good one” once and this was a few years after Pliny. He made mention of riots among Jews in Rome during the reign of Claudius from 41-54 C.E.
The Third Roman reference was by Tacitus at 115 C.E. He mentions that emperor Nero blamed the Christians for fires he started and that he was executed by Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius but does not mention how Jesus lived, his teachings, etc.
There are no roman sources within the first 100 years after the supposed life and death of Jesus and finally the records that do show up are 79+ years after when some believe Jesus died. What evidence is there that he is anything like the Christians and other religions believe he is?
Based on Christian sources outside of the New Testament gospels, the apostle Paul mentions eight things about Jesus, the earliest letter is from 50 C.E. What Paul has said was that he was a Jew and born of a woman (Gal 4:4), that he ministered among Jews (Rom 15:7), had brothers (1Cor 9:5), last supper (1 Cor 11:23-25), possible betrayal (1 Cor 11:23 “handed over”), was crucified (1 Cor 2:2), and also had 12 disciples (1Cor 15:5). On top of that Paul hardly provides any information about Jesus teachings and in fact only mentions three things Jesus said. What Paul mentioned were the words of the last supper, that Jesus was against divorce, and a cryptic message that might mean people should pay their preacher. The rest is left to interpretation.
There are the New Testament non-Pauline letters of the four gospels but they cannot be used literally and they do not provide historians with an accurate synopsis of the life of Jesus. The New Testament gospels were written 35-75 years after Jesus and were not written by Jesus earliest followers. All four gospels are anonymous as well… meaning that no body actually knows who wrote them, also meaning that a Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John weren’t actually written by a Mathew, Mark, Luke, or John despite what most common-day church goers probably believe. The four gospels are also inconsistent with each other and it is agreed among scholars that perspectives of each book have been affected and influenced by the writers own bias. Since written there have also been some additions added to the books that were not by the original authors.
The book of Mathew was most likely written between 85-95 C.E, contains a unique birth narriative, adds to Mark’s passion narrative, and portrays Jesus as the new Moses. Mark was written between 70-75 C.E. and doesn’t contain any birth narrative nor any resurrection stories, he is portrayed in full human nature (has human emotions such as fear, anger, etc). Luke was approximately written around 85-95C.E. with a unique birth narrative, Jesus is portrayed as showing little or no emotions (remember book of Mark says he is more emotional), does not suffer during ‘the passion’. The gospel according to John was written aprox. 90-120 C.E., Jesus is portrayed as being in complete control, gives long speeches throughout (how could anyone remember the exact words ppl said so long after?) and the book of John also adds unique material that none of the other gospels share.
These sources provide almost no historical information about Jesus because the authors have interpreted Jesus’ life rather than reported it. There are also contradictions which make it very hard to determine anything conclusive when evidence is not in agreement. Contradictions include Mark claiming Jesus attempted to keep his identity a secret but John mentions Jesus making his identity very public, Mark says Jesus told parables so people would not understand while Matthew says it was so they would understand, Matthew, Mark, and Luke have Jesus empty the Temple at the end of his ministry while John has him do so to begin his ministry.
There is virtually no actual evidence of miracles, dying and rising again, and all of the fairy tale superstition that many Christians and other religious folk believe. There is only theological interpretation and that cannot be used to reconstruct a biography of Jesus.
There is also alleged events that are shared between Jesus and another Egyptian mythological character named Horus. Such events include same ages of baptism, same fate of baptizers, same activities such as walking on water, cast out demons, healed sick, also died and resurrected. For a full range of comparisons click here.
Last year there was also an ancient tablet discovered that further adds fuel to fire the debate that the Jesus story was actually Jewish tradition. The tablet discovered speaks of a messiah called Simon who will rise from the dead after three days. Full story here.
So in sum, was there a Jesus? Maybe. Was he anything like modern mainstream Christian religions presuppose him to be? Definitely not, and most scholars will agree to that.
Happy Easter everybody.
Sources:
- Bronner, Ethan. “The New York Times Log In.” The New York Times – Breaking News, World News & Multimedia. 6 July 2008. 11 Apr. 2009 <http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/06/world/middleeast/06stone.html?_r=2&oref=slogin>.
- Michael, Tony. “Life of Jesus.” Christianity in Context – Life of Jesus Lecture. York University, Toronto. 22 Sept. 2008.
-Robinson, B.A. “Jesus’ and Horus’ life events, etc.” ReligiousTolerance.org by the Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance. 25 Apr. 2004. 11 Apr. 2009 <http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5b.htm>.
- Weaver, Mary Jo, and David Brakke. Introduction to Christianity. Belmont: Wadsworth, 2008.
April 11th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Obviously, totally made up stories about someone who probably never existed. The bible is a work of fiction.
April 11th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
We will never, ever, be forced to believe what we do not want to believe. That is the human spiritual freedom.
April 14th, 2009 at 9:01 am
You are correct “Jesus” never existed – His name was
YhSHh
If you want to read the teachings of YhShWh go read the Gospel of Thomas.
April 14th, 2009 at 9:09 am
Regarding your ancient Tablet …. “Some Christians will find it shocking — a challenge to the uniqueness of their theology — while others will be comforted by the idea of it being a traditional part of Judaism,” Mr. Boyarin said.
It was written by the Sons of Zadok (Sometimes called Essenes) – who knew that YhShWh would be born to Mariam /Nazarene family on Mount Carmel.
It only strengthens our belief that YhShwh was the True Messiah. The Way, the Truth and the Life.
You are correct YhShwh is more than a Hostorical figure. YhshWh is the Symbol of “God” on earth.
The Aleph in the Bayt in the Aleph.
THa A-B-A Father incarnate.
Look up the Sons of Zadok if you want to learn more.
Learn about Melchi-zadok. (Melchizadeck)
Yhshwh is Metatron. The hand of YH-WH
The Sheen in Yh-Wh.
Yh (Sheen) Wh
April 15th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
If you do not want to believe in God, I can understand that somewhat. The suggestion that Jesus never existed, however, is far from a rational suggestion. Disbelieve the miracles, disbelieve the resurrection, but the evidence for Jesus’ existence is as good as any other ancient figure. Here are some facts to consider:
1) Most scholars see a pre-Christian core to Josephus’ testimony about Jesus and almost all accept Jospehus’ comments about John the Baptist and James the brother of Jesus.
2) Paul, although primarily interested in the risen Jesus, does speak about the historical Jesus.
3) The Gospels have historical value. They have theological agendas but every ancient history had an agenda. We do not reject Greek or Roman histories just because they had political, religious or philosophical agendas. Differences between the Gospels do not take away from their value. Compare Josephus in the Antiquities and Jewish War where he speaks of the same events. There are differences. That was acceptable in ancient history.
4) Our sources are very early. Paul is as early as 20 years later. The Gospels are any where from 30 to 60 years after the events. Our earliest written records of Alexander the Great are 400 years after his life.
5) Between Josephus and the Roman writers, we have what we would expect. No one in the first century understood what Christianity would become so there is no reason to expect more than we have. Plus much of what the Romans and the Jews wrote in the first century has not survived to the present.
Did Jesus exist? Most likely. Most of the ancient figures contemporary with him have much less evidence and we do not question their existence. Let us at least admit that the questioning of Jesus’ existence is based not on rational historical research but on a desire to have a stronger critique against Christianity.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:16 am
Hey Chris. I’ve heard this Jesus/Horus stuff before, but when i looked into it, I grew pretty wary. Most of the points of comparison seem to be entirely made up and some are exaggerations based on a grain of truth. I’m not sure there’s any real relationship between Jesus and Horus that wouldn’t exist for any other mythological god–funny family history, magic powers, etc. Let’s be careful to be rational and scientific in our atheism!
April 16th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Evidence of YH-Sh-WH
Josephus’ first reference to Jesus here. Testimonium Flavianum:
“At this time there appeared Jesus, a wise man. For he was a doer of startling deeds, a teacher of people who receive the truth with pleasure. And he gained a following among many Jews and among many of Gentile origin.”
Another Jewish source for Jesus’ miracle working can be found in the Babylonian Talmud:
“It has been taught: On the eve of Passover they hanged Yeshu. And an announcer went out, in front of him, for forty days (saying): ‘He is going to be stoned, because he practiced sorcery and enticed and led Israel astray. Anyone who knows anything in his favor, let him come and plead in his behalf.’ But, not having found anything in his favor, they hanged him on the eve of Passover.” (Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a)
http://www.christianorigins.com/miracles.html
The Sons of Zadok/Nazoreans / ‘Essenes’ described by Josephus and Philo. The latter are clearly identical to the sectarians of the Dead Sea Scrolls, who refer to themselves with the same terminology that is seen for the Nazoreans in Acts. Additionally, a commune of between four and six thousand fanatics, selling everything they owned and giving the proceeds to administrators for the collective good, will pass unobserved only with great difficulty. We see a report of one case by Josephus, who was possibly influenced by Philo, and we see another very similar report in Acts, but neither observer reports both. Even some Christian commentators have come close to conceding that the two reports are of a single phenomenon, the sectarians persecuted by Paul being identified unambiguously as ‘Nazoraioi,’ in Acts 24:5. Noting that the Scrolls often refer to the sectarian community as ‘the Poor’ (‘Ebionim,’) [18], it seems that a member of either community was expected to “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor….”.
April 17th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Thank Sheckinah – many will appreciate this “historical” information.