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	<title>Comments on: Freethought and Free Speech Prevail in Ottawa</title>
	<atom:link href="http://atheistbus.ca/2009/03/12/freethought-and-free-speech-prevail-in-ottawa/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://atheistbus.ca/2009/03/12/freethought-and-free-speech-prevail-in-ottawa/</link>
	<description>There is no god anymore divine than Yourself - Walt Whitman</description>
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		<title>By: Hal</title>
		<link>http://atheistbus.ca/2009/03/12/freethought-and-free-speech-prevail-in-ottawa/comment-page-1/#comment-3047</link>
		<dc:creator>Hal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistbus.ca/?p=1009#comment-3047</guid>
		<description>Gabriel, you do realize that you are agreeing that the probability that a god exists is as close to zero that you can get?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gabriel, you do realize that you are agreeing that the probability that a god exists is as close to zero that you can get?</p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel</title>
		<link>http://atheistbus.ca/2009/03/12/freethought-and-free-speech-prevail-in-ottawa/comment-page-1/#comment-3046</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistbus.ca/?p=1009#comment-3046</guid>
		<description>HAL.

I agree with you 100 %

There is a .00001^infinity that there is God. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.” 

And the Kingdom of God is within YOU. Luke 17:21</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HAL.</p>
<p>I agree with you 100 %</p>
<p>There is a .00001^infinity that there is God. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.” </p>
<p>And the Kingdom of God is within YOU. Luke 17:21</p>
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		<title>By: Hal</title>
		<link>http://atheistbus.ca/2009/03/12/freethought-and-free-speech-prevail-in-ottawa/comment-page-1/#comment-3039</link>
		<dc:creator>Hal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 04:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistbus.ca/?p=1009#comment-3039</guid>
		<description>Shekhinah, change the 50 to infinity and you will be closer to the answer. We have to worry about tomorrow with all the religious fanatics still present tomorrow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shekhinah, change the 50 to infinity and you will be closer to the answer. We have to worry about tomorrow with all the religious fanatics still present tomorrow.</p>
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		<title>By: Shekhinah</title>
		<link>http://atheistbus.ca/2009/03/12/freethought-and-free-speech-prevail-in-ottawa/comment-page-1/#comment-3033</link>
		<dc:creator>Shekhinah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 02:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistbus.ca/?p=1009#comment-3033</guid>
		<description>The Christian&#039;s have you beat you to it. They say the EXACT same thing.

There is only a .000001^50 chance that there is God. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Christian&#8217;s have you beat you to it. They say the EXACT same thing.</p>
<p>There is only a .000001^50 chance that there is God. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://atheistbus.ca/2009/03/12/freethought-and-free-speech-prevail-in-ottawa/comment-page-1/#comment-3031</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 02:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistbus.ca/?p=1009#comment-3031</guid>
		<description>Hey CRZA, the ads are not out yet. They were approved and we&#039;re working on a contract with Pattison now. They should be up soon, probably next week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey CRZA, the ads are not out yet. They were approved and we&#8217;re working on a contract with Pattison now. They should be up soon, probably next week.</p>
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		<title>By: TheCRZA</title>
		<link>http://atheistbus.ca/2009/03/12/freethought-and-free-speech-prevail-in-ottawa/comment-page-1/#comment-3023</link>
		<dc:creator>TheCRZA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistbus.ca/?p=1009#comment-3023</guid>
		<description>it&#039;s been 5 days since the ads were approved here in Ottawa, and I still haven&#039;t seen an ad yet. I was even waiting at a bus station (Baseline Station, for the locals) for over half an hour and didn&#039;t see the ad at all. But what I did see was an unusually large amount of busses with empty ad spaces . . . hmmm . . .

Has anyone in Ottawa seen the ad yet?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it&#8217;s been 5 days since the ads were approved here in Ottawa, and I still haven&#8217;t seen an ad yet. I was even waiting at a bus station (Baseline Station, for the locals) for over half an hour and didn&#8217;t see the ad at all. But what I did see was an unusually large amount of busses with empty ad spaces . . . hmmm . . .</p>
<p>Has anyone in Ottawa seen the ad yet?</p>
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		<title>By: Michel</title>
		<link>http://atheistbus.ca/2009/03/12/freethought-and-free-speech-prevail-in-ottawa/comment-page-1/#comment-2993</link>
		<dc:creator>Michel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:30:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistbus.ca/?p=1009#comment-2993</guid>
		<description>Hello Mat! First of all, are you the young guy with the black-and-white hair who let the back of his T-Shirt be photographed by the newspaper reporter on March 11? If so, hello again.

In answer to your question in posting no. 1, I think the really important document when it comes to the other municipalities is not so much Alex Cullen&#039;s excellent resolution but rather the opinion put out by the City&#039;s Clerk and Solicitor the day before the Council meeting.

You see, this is a professional legal opinion that cities like Halifax, Vancouver and Victoria should indeed take note of, because the City of Ottawa received VERY clear advice from its Sollicitor, Rick O’Connor, to the effect that refusing our ads would be ruled a violation of our Charter rights.

This opinion is in the form of Memo dated March 10, 2009 to the Mayor and Members of (Ottawa City) Council from Mr. O’Connor. I wish I had an electronic copy. Perhaps you can get one from the City. It is file no. L06-02 ADVE. Mr. O’Connor goes over the whole question of what is meant by “Offensive” and “Freedom of Expression” and summarizes pertinent court decisions. I will not try to summarize all six pages, but I will quote the conclusion: “Based on information available at this time, it appears the City may not be able to justify its refusal of the proposed advertising on the basis that it is offensive, and consequently, it may be found to be an unreasonable infringement of the Association’s freedom of expression under. . . .the Charter.
. . . . . Finally, in the absence of further evidence to support a finding that the ads would be offensive to a reasonable number of transit users, it will be difficult for the City to justify its rejection of the ads, and to sucessfully defend a legal challenge if one is received.”

I hope this memo by Ottawa’s City Clerk and Solicitor is brought to the attention of Vancouver, Victoria and Halifax city councils, if they have refused our ads. After all, we are talking about the same ads, in the same country, subject to the same Charter. I think you would by doing your municipal governments a favour by warning them that they could be sucessfully challenged in court for what they are doing. Perhaps they could request a copy of the O’Connor memo, from one Municipal Government to another. 

Justin Trottier was at our event in Ottawa last night and told me that he has a copy of the memo and they are looking for ways to spread it around Canada.

If people get a copy and send it to their municipal councillors, it would help. It would be a very strategic move for one reason. Many councillors feel caught in the middle. They want to vote for Charter rights, but they know there are religious zealots out there ready to go after them. But if you send them a copy of the O&#039;Connor opinion, you are giving them an &quot;out&quot;. They can vote for acceptance of the bus ads and say to their opponents: &quot;Look, it would have been illegal NOT to allow the ads. They could have taken us to court and would certainly have won. I did not want to waste taxpayer money on a lawsuit.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Mat! First of all, are you the young guy with the black-and-white hair who let the back of his T-Shirt be photographed by the newspaper reporter on March 11? If so, hello again.</p>
<p>In answer to your question in posting no. 1, I think the really important document when it comes to the other municipalities is not so much Alex Cullen&#8217;s excellent resolution but rather the opinion put out by the City&#8217;s Clerk and Solicitor the day before the Council meeting.</p>
<p>You see, this is a professional legal opinion that cities like Halifax, Vancouver and Victoria should indeed take note of, because the City of Ottawa received VERY clear advice from its Sollicitor, Rick O’Connor, to the effect that refusing our ads would be ruled a violation of our Charter rights.</p>
<p>This opinion is in the form of Memo dated March 10, 2009 to the Mayor and Members of (Ottawa City) Council from Mr. O’Connor. I wish I had an electronic copy. Perhaps you can get one from the City. It is file no. L06-02 ADVE. Mr. O’Connor goes over the whole question of what is meant by “Offensive” and “Freedom of Expression” and summarizes pertinent court decisions. I will not try to summarize all six pages, but I will quote the conclusion: “Based on information available at this time, it appears the City may not be able to justify its refusal of the proposed advertising on the basis that it is offensive, and consequently, it may be found to be an unreasonable infringement of the Association’s freedom of expression under. . . .the Charter.<br />
. . . . . Finally, in the absence of further evidence to support a finding that the ads would be offensive to a reasonable number of transit users, it will be difficult for the City to justify its rejection of the ads, and to sucessfully defend a legal challenge if one is received.”</p>
<p>I hope this memo by Ottawa’s City Clerk and Solicitor is brought to the attention of Vancouver, Victoria and Halifax city councils, if they have refused our ads. After all, we are talking about the same ads, in the same country, subject to the same Charter. I think you would by doing your municipal governments a favour by warning them that they could be sucessfully challenged in court for what they are doing. Perhaps they could request a copy of the O’Connor memo, from one Municipal Government to another. </p>
<p>Justin Trottier was at our event in Ottawa last night and told me that he has a copy of the memo and they are looking for ways to spread it around Canada.</p>
<p>If people get a copy and send it to their municipal councillors, it would help. It would be a very strategic move for one reason. Many councillors feel caught in the middle. They want to vote for Charter rights, but they know there are religious zealots out there ready to go after them. But if you send them a copy of the O&#8217;Connor opinion, you are giving them an &#8220;out&#8221;. They can vote for acceptance of the bus ads and say to their opponents: &#8220;Look, it would have been illegal NOT to allow the ads. They could have taken us to court and would certainly have won. I did not want to waste taxpayer money on a lawsuit.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Tide</title>
		<link>http://atheistbus.ca/2009/03/12/freethought-and-free-speech-prevail-in-ottawa/comment-page-1/#comment-2988</link>
		<dc:creator>Tide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 03:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistbus.ca/?p=1009#comment-2988</guid>
		<description>All Right! Ottawa!
I really like the wording of the ruling. I think it opens up the possibility of going for many municipalities. Places like Owen Sound (where I live), Guelph , Sudbury, Kitchener, London, Barrie, Hamilton, Windsor, Thunder Bay, Saskatoon, Prince George, WhiteHorse, Chicoutimi, etc..
Even if there is no controversy, and limited press, the message still gets seen by virtually everyone in those cities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All Right! Ottawa!<br />
I really like the wording of the ruling. I think it opens up the possibility of going for many municipalities. Places like Owen Sound (where I live), Guelph , Sudbury, Kitchener, London, Barrie, Hamilton, Windsor, Thunder Bay, Saskatoon, Prince George, WhiteHorse, Chicoutimi, etc..<br />
Even if there is no controversy, and limited press, the message still gets seen by virtually everyone in those cities.</p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel</title>
		<link>http://atheistbus.ca/2009/03/12/freethought-and-free-speech-prevail-in-ottawa/comment-page-1/#comment-2977</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistbus.ca/?p=1009#comment-2977</guid>
		<description>Time to get rid of them. When is the next election ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time to get rid of them. When is the next election ?</p>
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		<title>By: SkepticaLynda</title>
		<link>http://atheistbus.ca/2009/03/12/freethought-and-free-speech-prevail-in-ottawa/comment-page-1/#comment-2976</link>
		<dc:creator>SkepticaLynda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:04:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atheistbus.ca/?p=1009#comment-2976</guid>
		<description>Gabriel, 
According to Michel from his comment on a previous post:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Voting against the motion were Miranne Wilkinson, Bob Monette, Rainer Bloess, Eli El-Shantiry, Doug Thompson, Rob Jellett and Mayor Larry O’Brien.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gabriel,<br />
According to Michel from his comment on a previous post:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Voting against the motion were Miranne Wilkinson, Bob Monette, Rainer Bloess, Eli El-Shantiry, Doug Thompson, Rob Jellett and Mayor Larry O’Brien.&#8221;</i></p>
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