Comments on: From Stalin to Islam, From Individualism to the Limits of Reason: There was a lot on The Agenda http://atheistbus.ca/2009/02/13/from-stalin-to-islam-from-individualism-to-the-limits-of-reason-there-was-a-lot-on-the-agenda/ There is no god anymore divine than Yourself - Walt Whitman Sun, 03 Apr 2011 01:46:27 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: True Rational Thinker http://atheistbus.ca/2009/02/13/from-stalin-to-islam-from-individualism-to-the-limits-of-reason-there-was-a-lot-on-the-agenda/comment-page-2/#comment-1888 True Rational Thinker Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:23:12 +0000 http://atheistbus.ca/?p=613#comment-1888 I further contend that since humans are rational and therefore it is impossible for them to choose 'self deception' such as religion when they become aware of the rational criticism of it, so for them, the only true way to solve this quandry is not to think about these issues, to just live your life day to day, get enjoyment, be productive, and stumble through your moral quandries if they arise. The other alternative is to not become aware of the critisms of religion and remain in ignorance, just following your particular religion. Lots of people are of course doing this, and this is what Peterson I think is saying--because ultimately there is no rationality to life. Some things are unknowable and some people may choose to call this unknowableness God, whether they follow a religion or reject religion. I also think Buckman knows this and that is why he refrains from telling people not to be religious, he just says keep your beliefs to yourself and do not kill people because of it. I further contend that since humans are rational and therefore it is impossible for them to choose ‘self deception’ such as religion when they become aware of the rational criticism of it, so for them, the only true way to solve this quandry is not to think about these issues, to just live your life day to day, get enjoyment, be productive, and stumble through your moral quandries if they arise.

The other alternative is to not become aware of the critisms of religion and remain in ignorance, just following your particular religion. Lots of people are of course doing this, and this is what Peterson I think is saying–because ultimately there is no rationality to life.

Some things are unknowable and some people may choose to call this unknowableness God, whether they follow a religion or reject religion.

I also think Buckman knows this and that is why he refrains from telling people not to be religious, he just says keep your beliefs to yourself and do not kill people because of it.

]]> By: Gabriel http://atheistbus.ca/2009/02/13/from-stalin-to-islam-from-individualism-to-the-limits-of-reason-there-was-a-lot-on-the-agenda/comment-page-1/#comment-1884 Gabriel Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:26:18 +0000 http://atheistbus.ca/?p=613#comment-1884 Yes we are all animals. Some of us just have bigger teeth than others. There are carnivorous and there are frugivorous. Which are you ? Yes we are all animals. Some of us just have bigger teeth than others.

There are carnivorous and there are frugivorous.

Which are you ?

]]> By: True Rational Thinker http://atheistbus.ca/2009/02/13/from-stalin-to-islam-from-individualism-to-the-limits-of-reason-there-was-a-lot-on-the-agenda/comment-page-1/#comment-1823 True Rational Thinker Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:20:56 +0000 http://atheistbus.ca/?p=613#comment-1823 The real question is: what is morality? Until you clarify that which no one did, you cannot get anywhere. Peterson was getting at it but was not articulate enough. And was a bit off topic I guess. Humanists talk about 'morality' saying we can just 'choose' to be moral (ie. Choose to not benefit our own survival so that others may benefit) This goes against the very law of nature and is not possible in the long run. I contend that: A. 'Morality' is irrational-- this is because it goes against the organisms drive to survive in certain circumstances-- and this drive is rational and proven EXAMPLE: How does a person not choose to steal something if there is no way he will be caught and it is to his extreme advantage to do it? Humanists would argue I guess that they would choose not to do it because it would ultimately be a strike against the community in which they live? Or just because? AND B. Morality does not exsit. The truth is, morality does not exist and is as much bunk as religion if not just another form of religion which is Petersons point. EXAMPLE Is it moral to kill someone to save yourself? Some moralists may say yes, others no-- they cannot agree, and the reason they cannot agree is because morality does not exist. Is abortion moral or immoral? The reason so many of us struggle with it and other moral quandries is because it does not exist. It is the same reason we struggle with religious issues-- we use the same twists and turns in our arugments to make it seem like it makes sense. What morality really is, is animals securing their place in the social group-- which is for their own survival. The real question is: what is morality? Until you clarify that which no one did, you cannot get anywhere. Peterson was getting at it but was not articulate enough. And was a bit off topic I guess.

Humanists talk about ‘morality’ saying we can just ‘choose’ to be moral (ie. Choose to not benefit our own survival so that others may benefit) This goes against the very law of nature and is not possible in the long run.

I contend that:

A. ‘Morality’ is irrational– this is because it goes against the organisms drive to survive in certain circumstances– and this drive is rational and proven
EXAMPLE:
How does a person not choose to steal something if there is no way he will be caught and it is to his extreme advantage to do it? Humanists would argue I guess that they would choose not to do it because it would ultimately be a strike against the community in which they live? Or just because?

AND

B. Morality does not exsit.
The truth is, morality does not exist and is as much bunk as religion if not just another form of religion which is Petersons point.
EXAMPLE Is it moral to kill someone to save yourself? Some moralists may say yes, others no– they cannot agree, and the reason they cannot agree is because morality does not exist. Is abortion moral or immoral? The reason so many of us struggle with it and other moral quandries is because it does not exist. It is the same reason we struggle with religious issues– we use the same twists and turns in our arugments to make it seem like it makes sense.

What morality really is, is animals securing their place in the social group– which is for their own survival.

]]> By: Gabriel http://atheistbus.ca/2009/02/13/from-stalin-to-islam-from-individualism-to-the-limits-of-reason-there-was-a-lot-on-the-agenda/comment-page-1/#comment-1770 Gabriel Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:42:36 +0000 http://atheistbus.ca/?p=613#comment-1770 "Just as a candle cannot burn without fire, men cannot live without a spiritual life." Buddha “Just as a candle cannot burn without fire, men cannot live without a spiritual life.”

Buddha

]]> By: Gabriel http://atheistbus.ca/2009/02/13/from-stalin-to-islam-from-individualism-to-the-limits-of-reason-there-was-a-lot-on-the-agenda/comment-page-1/#comment-1769 Gabriel Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:41:49 +0000 http://atheistbus.ca/?p=613#comment-1769 "Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." Buddha “Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without.”

Buddha

]]> By: Gabriel http://atheistbus.ca/2009/02/13/from-stalin-to-islam-from-individualism-to-the-limits-of-reason-there-was-a-lot-on-the-agenda/comment-page-1/#comment-1768 Gabriel Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:40:15 +0000 http://atheistbus.ca/?p=613#comment-1768 Hal, "In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves." Buddha Hal,

“In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.”

Buddha

]]> By: Hal http://atheistbus.ca/2009/02/13/from-stalin-to-islam-from-individualism-to-the-limits-of-reason-there-was-a-lot-on-the-agenda/comment-page-1/#comment-1708 Hal Sun, 22 Feb 2009 04:37:53 +0000 http://atheistbus.ca/?p=613#comment-1708 Troll, Troll and Troll. Will that make you go away again? Sorry Devon if I am ruining your fun. I just think it is a total waste of time discussing topics from a fairy tale book called the bible written by a bunch of sheep herders. Troll, Troll and Troll.

Will that make you go away again?

Sorry Devon if I am ruining your fun.

I just think it is a total waste of time discussing topics from a fairy tale book called the bible written by a bunch of sheep herders.

]]> By: Offgrid http://atheistbus.ca/2009/02/13/from-stalin-to-islam-from-individualism-to-the-limits-of-reason-there-was-a-lot-on-the-agenda/comment-page-1/#comment-1679 Offgrid Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:55:32 +0000 http://atheistbus.ca/?p=613#comment-1679 Devon: No - not banned - just tired of Hal calling me a troll day after day after day and to stop with the BS and stuff like that. Not sure I can discuss my beliefs with people like that? I think he was confused since most atheists think that theists believe in something like Zeus. Other than you, from what I have seen so far it seems like most atheists are just like Hal. Devon: No – not banned – just tired of Hal calling me a troll day after day after day and to stop with the BS and stuff like that.

Not sure I can discuss my beliefs with people like that? I think he was confused since most atheists think that theists believe in something like Zeus.

Other than you, from what I have seen so far it seems like most atheists are just like Hal.

]]> By: Devon http://atheistbus.ca/2009/02/13/from-stalin-to-islam-from-individualism-to-the-limits-of-reason-there-was-a-lot-on-the-agenda/comment-page-1/#comment-1674 Devon Sat, 21 Feb 2009 18:33:12 +0000 http://atheistbus.ca/?p=613#comment-1674 I haven't really gotten into the forums yet...up until now I have been busy enough posting comments here... Some people tried to say you were banned ;) I haven’t really gotten into the forums yet…up until now I have been busy enough posting comments here…

Some people tried to say you were banned ;)

]]> By: Offgrid http://atheistbus.ca/2009/02/13/from-stalin-to-islam-from-individualism-to-the-limits-of-reason-there-was-a-lot-on-the-agenda/comment-page-1/#comment-1666 Offgrid Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:58:44 +0000 http://atheistbus.ca/?p=613#comment-1666 Devon, I haven't seen you on the forums - are you there as Devon ? Devon,

I haven’t seen you on the forums – are you there as Devon ?

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