Ottawa Next Stop on Canadian Atheist Bus Campaign
Campaign Updates, Press February 10th, 2009Freethought Association disgusted with Halifax transit attack on free speech
TORONTO, ONTARIO–(Marketwire – Feb. 10, 2009) – Freethought Association of Canada announces it will move its “Atheist Bus” campaign into more cities, including Ottawa, after surpassing $40,000.
The ads, which have been approved in Toronto and Calgary, declare “There’s probably no god. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.”
“Ottawa is a logical choice,” said FAC President Justin Trottier. “As the political centre of our country we hope to send a message that secularism and non-believers be considered equally in political discussion.”
The Freethought Association continues to pressure Metro Transit in Halifax to run ads. They have refused, claiming the ads are too “controversial”.
“We want to discuss this, but they won’t meet,” said Derek Rodgers, Halifax spokesperson.
The Freethought Association feels that Metro Transit’s actions violate their Charter right to free speech.
“We exist to encourage healthy debate,” said Trottier. Several religious organizations have already joined the discussion.
FAC is a registered charity promoting education of secular worldviews.
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February 10th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Ottawa is definitely a great choice along side Toronto. Halifax obviously has a religious leaning bias towards decisions affecting the public sector which is unfortunate, but partially expected. At the very least, the media attention and discussions sparked by this issue has brought it into the minds of the public all across Canada.
They can’t sweep us under the carpet forever!
February 10th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
What do they mean “We want to discuss this, but they won’t meet,” said Derek Rodgers, Is that a funny joke?
I can’t imagine you guys not wanting to meet, unless you think its pointless and they will probably try to drastically change your message. (plus if he wants face to face will they cover your airfare?)
Keep fighting the good fight, I will donate as soon as I get my credit card (soon)
Also, I have a little proposal of sorts…
Its to do with the T-shirts…currently when you buy a T-shirt the funds are used to support more bus adds yes?
Well its my thinking that T-shirts are a good form of advertising as well, If they cost less people would buy more, and more people would wear them (each like a little atheist bus add
). In my case my little brother would buy one too except for the fact that it is $30 plus tax, its nice that shipping is included…I don’t know, I was just thinking that if you sold them at cost they would sell more and might generate more donations and discussion.
Again I don’t know the numbers you guys have…but some companies give t-shirts away as a form of advertising (beer)
Thanks and keep fighting the good fight!
February 10th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Great show tonight on Nova (PBS). 2 hours long.
Evolution vs ID. Guess who wins.
You can watch it on line too.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/
Also more Darwin and evolution stuff at:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/
February 10th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
I bought one of the t-shirts and originally thought the message was fine, but the more I think about it the less I like it. The admonition to “stop worrying and enjoy your life” seems very foolhardy now, especially given the state of the planet environmentally and economically. A lot of people have been not worrying and enjoying themselves to the point of financial and environmental ruin.
While I gladly proclaim, “There is no god” with more certainty than the bus ad is willing to admit, I am increasingly less happy with telling people they need not worry. There’s plenty to worry about and no god to fix it.
February 10th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
SkepticalLynda – Yes there is a God that can fix it – and it’s You.
If you can connect with the divine light that is within you… your potential to be creative we can all solve these global problems. If we all understood our true heritage as keepers of this earth we could save this planet. It takes a lot of very hard work and knowledge. Yes – Knowledge of good and evil. Buying that too big of a house and that too big of a car is bad. Driving the bus or designing a solar car is good. There is good and there is bad. We need to start seeking the knowledge of discernment. We don’t need churches for this – we need to understand our purpose, and that we are all related, Stop killing each other, stop the greed, stop the fear and get Creative. It’s your heritage. Be the Creator. Create light. Create life. Stop the destruction. all we have is the here and now. So go to it. You’ll see me on the Ottawa bus with my sign “The Kingdom of G-d is within You. – so thanks for taking the bus today. You are saving the World.” It’s a bit long, I need to shorten it a bit.
February 10th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
I have the shirt and plan on wearing it to see Dawkins in East Lansing Michigan on March 2. I wish the T shirt was on a coloured background instead of white so it would be easier to wear. Ah but it is for fund raising. The button is easier to wear.
Well, if religion disappears, then so will wars and the waste it produces so it will all work out. Ya as if that will happen…. There will always be ignorant people on this planet.
I think we should take “probably” out if the religious ads go out saying that there is a god.
Ottawa is the obvious choice after Toronto now that their buses are running.
February 10th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
Here’s a link to my blog.
I’ll be going to visit OC Transpo tomorrow to see if I can place my Ad on their buses.
http://the-kingdom-of-god-is-within-you.blogspot.com/
Stay tuned…..
February 11th, 2009 at 12:55 am
A quick clarification. Derek Rodgers is FAC Halifax spokesperson, not Metro Transit spokesperson. We’ve been attempting to hold a meeting with the Metro Transit but they refuse to discuss this issue with us. Interestingly, last night on the Dale Goldhawk show, TTC chairman Adam Giambroni said that a Charter challenge would certainly show any transit refusing to publish atheist or religious ads to be violating free speech.
February 11th, 2009 at 9:00 am
SkepticaLynda:
My understanding of the “stop worrying” part of the campaign slogan is as a direct reference to religion and God, and not suggesting to just stop worrying about everything that’s going on in the world and our personal lives. We should try to think of the saying within the context it is intended for.
I do agree though I would like the “There is no God” saying a bit better, but wasn’t that proposed in London and it was rejected originaly? I’m sure that would be rejected here as well.
February 11th, 2009 at 10:12 am
(Q) Gospel of Thomas v.3, Jesus says,[24]
…the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty, and it is you who are that poverty.” The teaching of salvation (i.e., entering the Kingdom of Heaven) that is found in The Gospel of Thomas is neither that of “works” nor of “grace” as the dicotomy is found in the canonical gospels, but what might be called a third way, that of insight. The overriding concern of The Gospel of Thomas is to find the light within in order to be a light unto the world.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas
The Gospel of Thomas is regarded by many scholars as one of the most important texts in understanding early Christianity outside the New Testament.
February 11th, 2009 at 10:47 am
His disciples said to him, “When will the kingdom come?”
“It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying ‘here it is’ or ‘there it is.’ Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it.” Gospel of Thomas(113)
February 11th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Offgrid,
According to the standard definition of “god” I do not qualify. Thanks for your vote of confidence in my ability to effect some real change in the world to fix the currently observable problems, but I believe your confidence is misplaced.
We walk or bicycle almost everywhere and we heat (for the most part) with our EPA wood stove. We don’t buy a lot of processed food wrapped in plastics. We try to conserve on everything. Reuse and recycle as much as possible.
However, it will never be enough as long as humans continue to reproduce without thought to the consequences of producing more humans than their environment can support.
Humans do not, for the most part, understand or care about their environment enough to do anything to fix the mess we’ve created.We are destroying our water supply, our air and our food-producing land. But there is no real will to stop this out of control reproduction. The woman who just had 8 babies while having 6 kids already at home, and the state that allowed her to go ahead with her mania, is a prime example of just how f@#*%d we really are. That woman should be in a psychiatric hospital not popping out more consumers.
The wealthy continue to disregard the state of the planet and no amount of my feeble attempts to adjust my lifestyle will save this planet as long as those in power continue to abuse their power. One badly run company can wipe out the efforts of thousands like myself.
I want to believe that if I petition my government that something concrete will be accomplished, but years of experience have taught me that all they care about is lining their own pockets now and the hell with the planet.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Jim Hardy,
Unless the ad promoting belief in a judgmental god is seen next to the agnostic ad it should not be assumed that people will get the connection.
Even if “Now stop worrying” refers to the concept of a judgmental god one can just change their belief system to a god that is less judgmental and more merciful, thus eliminating, even further, any desire by that god-believer to live a life of responsibility to his/her neighbor or the environment.
I don’t have any particular interest in making people feel good about their lives and living it up. I want people to start living based on reality and scientific evidence. This may create worry and so it should. Worry is useful, in my opinion.
I’d rather see this ad: THERE’S NO GOD SO BE GOOD.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
skeptikalLynda. You are doing a lot more than most. It is true that we can have little effect on big corporations but we need to start somewhere. And the only place we can effectively cause change is in ourselves. Our own behaviour. Its a start. If man over-produces , Mother Nature will even things out – the planet can only take so much. If we run out of oil there will be a re-calibration of the world population. If we overheat the planet – the melting ice will re-calibrate the population. The Earth is a very efficient system. We have abused it with our greed and over-consumption. We have wrought this. Not God. Our free will has caused much grief in this world. Our lack of discernment between good and evil. No follower of Jesus can believe in War or killing of any kind. 99.99 % of all Christians do not follow the words of Jesus. “Thou shall not Kill, Turn the other cheek” The churches are false teachers. They do not teach the words of Jesus. What can you do to effect change ? Change yourself. G-d, g-d, or whatever creative spark you have in you is your connection to the very first act of creation. You are a “Son/daughter of G-d” Whether you see that or not. Take action, be a light for the world to see. Stop driving, get rid of all your useless stuff that you never use, downsize, reduce, reuse and recycle, plant a garden, grow your own food, plant a tree, become a vegetarian, stop killing animals. It’s what you can do. It’s all you can do. Be the creator that is trying to save the planet from destruction. There is a re-calibration and de-leveraging going on. The kingdom of G-d is within you. Jesus also said to “sell all your belongings and come follow me”. We do not need all this stuff, these things, this wealth. They are destroying the planet.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Offgrid,
Who the F@#K is Jesus that I should follow him?
I use to follow that imaginary character promoted by the false scriptures that Christians use to abuse their fellow men. I grew up. I don’t need any lessons from an outdated book of mythology to show me the path to protecting the planet.
You, my friend, have no idea what you’re talking about if you believe for one second that you know what this Jesus ever said, if it should happen that he ever existed in the first place. I’ve done my archaeological studies to know there is virtually no evidence of his existence.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
SL – Do you mean his bones ?
You are correct – you will never find them.
February 11th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
The word ‘probably’ is as needed from those who do not believe in deity as for those who do, since neither is currently capable of conclusively proving their position. Those who do not believe in a deity, however, have the overwhelming support of lack of evidence, of reasoned argument, and of probability on their side. It’s not 100% certain, but it’s overwhelmingly likely, say around 99.9999%, that there are no deities.
So, while we may, on the grounds of high likelihood, be sure that there deity is not possible, we, as Richard Dawkins does so often, prefer to accept that we may be wrong (i.e. we accept that there a small, a vanishingly small chance that any deity might exist); whereas I’ve yet to see a majority of those who argue the existence of deity accept that there is any potential for doubt in their position, even though they have no evidence, let alone any reproducible proof.
February 11th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
So, Offgrid, if you agree there is no evidence for the existence of this Jesus, how do you know that anything you quote as being from his mouth is an accurate quote? And if you were able to prove that the quotes are accurate, why should this man’s statements be any more full of truth than any other man’s speech on the planet?
I like to quote Woody Allen or George Carlin. Their quotes make a lot of sense and I KNOW they did or do exist (George passed away not that long ago unfortunately).
“I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work… I want to achieve it through not dying.”(a Woody Allen quote)
“Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.” (a George Carlin quote)
Since this Jesus you quote apparently believed in a god I would say he was just as poorly informed as any other man living in his century.
February 11th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Offgrid, this god you say is “inside us” is just your imagination. You want to give credit for an imaginary being instead of the hard, dedicated work of human beings. No help comes from any imaginary friends, Jesus, or any gods, goddesses, etc. Nothing happens without human action, or inaction.
Obama said at his recent prayer breakfast “Pray as though everything depends on God, but work as if everything depends on you.” The fact is that everything does depend on we human beings, which you yourself has stated. There is no little magic man inside me, there is no grand puppetmaster making us do things, there is only us…human beings. We can make the world a better place, or we can continue to abuse it. But either way, no god comes to step in. No god prevents it, no god pulls strings for people to step in.
There world before us is fascinating, but it is not a magical world full of magical beings who control human beings. Your G-d and your Jesus are both imaginary. Jesus may have been an historical figure, but absolutely ludicrous to believe he is a living ghost who is “inside us.”
February 11th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
OK – you follow George Carlin and Woody Allen then and I’ll follow Essa (Yeshua_
I will continue to read the words of Essa of the Essenes. (Yeshua/Jesus) and try to be a good person. The life and ways of the Essenes are recorded by many historians including Philo, Josephus, Pliny, the Nazoreans, and others. Essa not only believed in a god. He is God. As are all of us since nothing has been created apart from God. God is in the all. You can not see him since you are looking through his eyes…
February 11th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Hopefully this is the right spot to drop my post. Caught wind of this movement this morning on community radio and wanted to share my thoughts.
My concern with this atheist movement is that it aims to ridicule religion, anger and alienate followers but doesn’t offer anything to challenge the very foundations these supposed religions such as Christianity are founded upon as well as failing to examine what is being conveyed within religious texts and doctrine.
My aim is to debunk the foundation of religious institutions and some of the alternative theories I’ve come across explore that possibility in order to undermine their concept of god. In terms of what Offgrid states, I’m open to the idea that there is a spirituality within each of us but not necessarily a divinity.
One curious discovery is that science and religion are not as polarized as one may think(unlike the posters in this forum:)) In fact, science is just as bad as religion in denial of alternative sciences or concepts or histories as there is an institutionalized effort of control from both entities. My practice is to read and extract what I determine to be the truth for me.
First off, there are tens of thousands of beliefs but only one reality or truth.
I’ve come across various sources of alternative history over the last few years. I’ve always considered myself an atheist and an advocate of science but have realized based on the readings I have come across that there is much science buried within religious text and scripture that we could readily dismiss as silly folklore yet carries plausible significance.
The first book that inspired my thirst to discover more was Graham Hancock’s ‘Fingerprints of the Gods’. Hancock examines various world religions and mythologies and discovered astonishing commonalities between them all including precessional codes which he also found within the passage rights of street gangs such as The Triads.
What is precession?
When the Earth rotates, it spins on an angle but it isn’t a perfect spin, it actually wobbles and that wobble is called precession. It takes approximately 25920 years for one complete cycle to finish. This wobble changes the view of the alignment of the stars so the chunk of years was broken into 12 segments or constellations, hence the 12 signs of the zodiac which is the true calendar.
Time is not linear it is cyclic. As the Earth wobbles it passes through the various constellations and it takes 2160 years for the Earth to pass through one zodiac sign. During the spring equinox, the sun rises under the sign of our current zodiac which is ‘pisces’ the symbol of none other than the fish. It has been doing so for approximately 2100 years and we are in the transition period where the sign will change to that of ‘aquarius’…
The zodiac calendar whose significance and importance has been reduced to trivial horoscopes, is the true calendar and our very city lights have advanced its obscurity.
The vast majority of world religions and mythologies have tales of deluge and stories of flooding and Noah’s Ark(checkout Fingerprints of the Gods(yes gods-plural)) and there are far too many commonalities between them to be arbitrary, in fact Z. Sitchin has discovered ceremonial Hebrew words in mesoamerican civilizations and believes they are the lost tribes of Israel.
All that aside, it takes the Earth approx 2160 years to pass through one zodiac sign and we are currently coming to the end of the period of the age of pisces and moving to the age of aquarius.
How old is Jesus approx? Aren’t we in the 21st century??? 21 * 100=2100. That is cutting it awful close to 2160.
The bible calls it ‘end of days’ and Mayans pulled out people’s hearts to prevent it but sure as morning toast, the transition from one age to the next is happening. The Mayan calendar also ends in 2012.
Associated with this change in age has been calamitous events ie: deluge, ice ages, hence the importance of the calendar to prepare for this uncertain eventuality. Will something devastating happen? Not sure but the one expert I’ve read believes it happens every two cycles of the zodiac this being the end of the second. http://www.pyramidmatrix.com
Constantine, like today’s ruling elite feared the masses and transferred the pagan values and symbols into christian ones(Dan Brown). The pagans basically worshiped women as divine for their ability to give life and none other than the sun, hence the word SUNday.
The sun currently rises under the sign of pisces during the spring equinox. Pisces is the symbol of the fish who is none other than, you guessed it, Jesus.
Art has always mirrored the sign of the zodiac that the sun rises under, hence, we had the minotaur during the age of taurus.
from dictinary.com
Ichthus
Ich”thus\, n. [Gr. ?.] In early Christian and eccesiastical art, an emblematic fish, or the Greek word for fish, which combined the initials of the Greek words ?, ?, ? ?, ?, Jesus, Christ, Son of God, Savior.
Early Christian art depicting the fish…I repeat…early ‘Christian’ art depicting the symbol of the fish for who??? Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior…
What is the zodiac symbol for pisces again? The Fish….hmmmmmm. Out of all the symbol rich things our planet has to offer, why on Earth would they have chosen to associate Jesus with a fish?
The fish represents Jesus and who is Jesus? The son of god? Jesus’s birthday is aligned with the fall and rise of the sun as the Earth revolves around it. ie: the winter solstice, the end of the dark cycle and the happy happy joy joy of the new year celebration, the return of the sun as it begins its ascent in the horizon again, hence longer days, light triumphs over dark.(A very borealcentric view methinks::) Jesus is how old? How long does it take the Earth to pass through one zodiac sign? 2160 years. hmmmmmm…
Some of these religious folk preach the return, well, he returns every year!
Carl Sagan wrote in Contact, math is the universal language and an advanced civilization would use it as their form of communication.
Maya means water in Egyptian.
The Great Pyramid at Giza and the Kukulkan Pyramid in Mexico are undeniably linked through math written into the design of the building.
Kukulkan has 9 levels, 4 sides, 4 staircases and 365 steps:
9*4*4*365=52560
Contrary to popular belief and modern man’s bloated ego, the prime meridian is not in Greenwich it is the Great Pyramid at Giza. (try to debunk it, I invite you to:))
Kukulkan sits 119 degrees, 42 minutes and 10.5ish seconds West of Giza:
52560/119 degrees=441.68067
441.68067/ 42 minutes =10.516207
The time in seconds. Not convinced? Kukulkan has 365 steps offset at 90 degree angles: 365/90=4.055
According to the Aeronautical Charting Division in Silver Spring MD the Giza and Kukulkan pyramids are 7123.85068 statute miles(yes miles, none of that metric poison) apart. The TAN of 7123.85068=4.055…not bad for a bunch of primitives!
Stonehenge originally had 60 stones arranged in a circle (360degrees). 60*360=21600. Well, Stonehenge rests 51 degrees, 10 minutes, 42.3529411 seconds north of giza.
21600/ 51 degrees=423.52941
423.52941/ 10 minutes=42.352941
Which is the amount in seconds where it sits north of Giza.
Three structures in three different parts of the world linked via math, yet apparently evolved independently of each other.
The very ancients who designed the zodiac calendar also built those structures.
The math is undeniable and tested to ensure the numbers are not being manipulated. Google Carl Munck ‘The Code’ and read his article on greatdreams.com and visit his site…www.pyramidmatrix.com
We invented instruments to measure longitude in the 1800′s to avoid shipwrecks. The precision used to design these buildings clearly shows it was around long before our modern society.
If you are going to run these ad campaigns, start including items or symbols that give people something tangible so they can see the reality of the world around them. Not some vague statement that fosters hostility. I know all too well that people create their own realities and any message that goes against the grain of their indoctrination will result in fear and anger but please make the effort to debunk what religion stands upon with plausible facts rather than vague statements such as ‘god doesn’t exist just be happy’.
Happy reading:
Graham Hancock
Carl Munck
Robert Temple
Christoper Dunn
David Twitchell
February 12th, 2009 at 8:42 am
Hal Said: Great show tonight on Nova (PBS). 2 hours long. Evolution vs ID. Guess who wins.
If you missed it on the first showing, it’s being shown again on Darwin’s 200th. birthday, Thursday 12th. February, at 23:30 (tonight). WNED schedules are at: http://www.wned.org/TV/pbsschedmod.asp
February 12th, 2009 at 9:46 am
Offgrid wrote,
You can not see him since you are looking through his eyes…
LOL! So I should be able to see him in the mirror. LOL!
I don’t follow GC or WA or anyone else. I am quite capable of leading my own life.
February 12th, 2009 at 9:50 am
BTW, Offgrid, since your comments appear to be getting quite off topic I won’t be responding to anymore of them here. I prefer to adhere to the web site guidelines for discussion. There’s a forum where you can start your own topic. Maybe I’ll comment there if you decide to do that.
February 12th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Newsun26 Very Interesting. What is the significance of the numbers 313 and 314 (pi) ?
Go read Genesis 3:13 Galations 3:13 and John 3:14.
The churches have misled people in the interpretation of Genesis (hebrew Nachash-serpent) . Who is the Eyptian Atum, the Buddhist and Hindu Nagas, the Sumerian Tiamat ?
What is the 13th sign of the Zodiac ? Why is the Medical symbol 2 serpents on a stick ? What do you know about the Esse-nes on Mount Carmel. What is the symbol of the Aztec Quetzalcoatl. God of rebirth, renewal and resurrection. There are a lot of questions. What are the answers ? Why is the world still at War. We have not found peace yet – we have failed to see (to hear) that the Kingdom of God is within us.
February 12th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Not exactly sure about those numbers nor do I have the answers to all those questions…what about Thoth 240? I do know that the Dogon, Sumerian and Egyptian civs all knew about the Sirius star system being binary long before our modern telescopes discovered it.
Interesting question about the medical symbol Caduceus and the two serpents.
Wikipedia states the serpents symbolize peace. I’ve also read that the serpent symbolizes the vital forces in life.
It is a curious symbol that lead me to theorize about the importance of water. The serpent could represent a meandering river/water and according to an Austrian Hydrologist named Viktor Schauberger, water is the vital life blood of the planet.
What does that all mean, well Schauberger assigned both male and female properties to water. Split the atoms and you have hydrogen and oxygen which are explosive, hence the male characteristic. But he also determined that water has implosive properties as well, the female characteristics…very ying and yang…just look at human orgasm, female is implosive, male is explosive.
http://unusualscience.com/Viktor-Schauberger.htm
http://inventors.about.com/od/sstartinventors/a/Schauberger.htm
He also warned that water has memory and even though polluted water has been filtered and comes through the tap as a clear substance, once polluted it retains its altered properties, oscillating at frequency of its polluted state and that chlorinating and provisioning water through metallic pipes is detrimental to our health, the best source being ground water as it oscillates to the Earth’s natural frequency and is rich in carbons. The tap water can apparently be repolarized and products are available to achieve this.
THe Mayans use the symbol of the snake in many of their petroglyphs and ‘maya’ does mean water in Egyptian and ‘mai’ in Arabic. It does make for a Curious association:)
February 15th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Remember I mentioned our true calendar is the Zodiac one and time is cyclic and science is imbedded within religion…
Pope Gregory(Gregorian Calendar) ignored what Daniel left us in Chapter 7, Verse 25:
“A time and times and the dividing of time.”
February 15th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Here’s another fun one:
“Therefore my people have gone into captivity because they have no knowledge” (Isaiah 5;13)
February 15th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
newsun26.
Isaiah 5:13 fun how ? We are all in captivity. Got a job ?
February 16th, 2009 at 10:56 am
“When a certain astronomer, who was present, asked the Lord Jesus, whether He had studied astronomy, the Lord replied and told him the number of spheres and heavenly bodies, as also their triangular, square and sextile aspect; their progressive and retrograde motion; their size and several prognostications; and other things which the reason of man had never discovered.”
(1 Infancy 21;9,10.)
February 18th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
I want to call someone who is responsible for making the decision not to post the ad in Ottawa, but I can’t seem to find a number. I assume it’s the city’s transportation committee, right? Can someone maybe post a phone number I could call?