Making New Friends: My back-to-back On-Air Discussions with the Head of the United Church of Canada
Campaign Updates, Discussion, Press February 6th, 2009
Moderator of the United Church of Canada the Right Reverend David Giuliano
It’s been getting really exciting recently with the bus campaign. There’s been an interesting new development since the United Church of Canada got in on the fun. We are actually succeeding in the primary aim we keep going on about, namely the formation of dialogue. Over the last two days I’ve engaged in back to back panel discussion, live on air, with the Right Reverend David Giuliano, the highest officer in the United Church of Canada.
Firstly, last night Chris Hammond and I engaged with the Reverend for an hour on CP24 television and jointly fielded half a dozen callers. The conversation was very level except after one caller gave her point of view that since Canada was a Christian country (talk of begging the question) we had no business impugning that fact, and that a person’s religion was too holy for offending it to be acceptable. I had to say about three times – over her voice – that Canada has no such thing as a human right to not be offended (not yet anyway). Luckily, the host of the show is a free speech attorney who worked to defend Ezra Levant, the former editor of the Western Standard who was hauled before the Human Rights commission in Alberta for printing the Mohamed Cartoons. So Chris and I were in very good company.
This morning I was woken up to a phone-in discussion on a Waterloo, Ontario based radio show for a conversation with the same Reverend Giuliano. Knowing each other a little better, we now had the opportunity to explore issues of faith and divinity in more depth, and the host prompted us with leading questions like whether atheists were just out for themselves (to which I responded by describing that as a fairly archaic characterization) and whether god was a necessary additive if everyone agreed non-believers could lead moral and deeply satisfying lives.
When the Reverend described how God to him was a transcendental entity which subsumed concepts like beauty, love and ethics, I agreed that such a transcendental belief assisted some, while explaining that many people are able to appreciate the majesty of the universe and lead lives of commitment to deep ethical principles without having to label these values with the imprimateur of God. Also consider individuals like Gretta Vosper, head of the Canadian Centre for Progressive Christianity and United Church minister in Scarborough, whose book With or Without God, calls Christians to move towards the use of symbols in place of doctrine and belief. It was an interesting conversation because without caller interruptions we were able to engage in more of a good natured critique of the other’s viewpoint, always staying positive and converging in some places along the complicated spectrum that joins our worldviews, and in fact concluding with the host expressing his belief that we would make great friends, to which we both readily agreed.
I’m very pleased that precedents such as these are moving atheism into the mainstream. To respond to criticisms that what we are doing is trivial and pointless, I would point to such examples. That’s what this campaign is all about.
Now for something more amusing – but equally mainstream – editorial cartoons! Since this site is well read (as opposed to my personal blog) I won’t dare reprint it, so visit here, so visit the Montreal Gazette Aislin cartoon for Feb 2, 2009. Enjoy!
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Discuss this on our forums at http://atheistbus.ca/forum
Cross posted to Equalism Activism
February 7th, 2009 at 7:42 am
Great Job!
February 7th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
Good discussion. I think that the main reason many people fall away from a belief in G-d is because of how he is depicted in the story of Genesis, and other places in the Bible. There is very much in this story that is confusing and upsetting to all people. The idea that G-d would create us and then tempt us with a Tree of Knowledge and then banish us from paradise is very upsetting. How is this Love ? I think the problem with the story is in how we read it. If the term “Fall of Man” is taken as the creation of our souls in our bodies at birth the story is a metaphor for how man’s divine spirit is formed in our bodies when we are born. If the Garden of Eden is here on earth -where is it ? I think the entire story takes place before we arrive here on earth. It teaches of the necessity of our birth and the need to acquire knowledge. The serpent is our instinct to learn about good and evil. Who made the serpent into satan ? “Nachash”also means “shiney one” in hebrew. In all other cultures save Judaism, Christianity and Islam, the serpent is a divine being that teaches mankind about resurrection. The Serpent is a symbol of rebirth, and new life (shedding of our skin) Our earthly body. Look up ” Hindu and Buddhist Nagas” on Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nāga
Also the Mayan Quetzalcoatl is often referred to as The Feathered Serpent and was connected to the planet Venus. He was also the patron god of the Aztec priesthood, of learning and knowledge” The Egyptian “Atum” is also a Serpent God, that symbolized resurrection. The bible and all these stories give us symbols and signs of what we can become – if we seek a “divine knowldege”
February 7th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
vancouver canada transit just announced it will NOT allow the ads on buses or transit shelters
February 7th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Stu…prbably has to do with not alienating the Americans before the upcoming olympics…It’s about the cash
February 7th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Justin and Chris: heya, that must be a heady feeling, being on such a public program. I wish I could have heard it :3
Stu: and that is just bizarre. I guess it makes sense (as well as the invention of the gun-totin skycops) because the CEO is American.
February 8th, 2009 at 12:48 am
Stu: you might want to look at this:
http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/blogs/thesearch/archive/2009/02/04/bring-on-the-atheist-ads.aspx
February 9th, 2009 at 3:40 am
In the article at the link posted by Inannawhimsey it states:
“B.C. transit authorities have long-standing policies against religious advertising, pro or con.”
This is a good policy for any government agency to uphold. It maintains separation of church and state. I applaud the decision, as long as they are consistent in this regard and do indeed remain free of all religious advertising.
February 9th, 2009 at 4:06 am
“precedents such as these are moving atheism into the mainstream.”
When I was young and a Christian I use to think that atheism was all too prominent in society. It seemed to me then that it was mainstream. Most of my public school friends didn’t go to church and certainly were not particularly religious.
I remember when I started working and discussing with non-religious co-workers issues I was dealing with in my church that the typical response was that they didn’t go to church and thought I should just quit going.
Now that I’m an atheist the tables seem to have turned and my beliefs have dropped out of the mainstream.
How did this happen? It almost seems like I finally got with the program and the program changed.
Honestly, if it wasn’t for the few fundamentalists out there who want to make the rest of the world slaves to their dogma, the rest of the world doesn’t give a damn what we believe. They may answer polls with tick marks indicating that they are Roman Catholic or Jewish or whatever, but in their hearts they are much more irreligious.
Have the attacks of 9/11 by a handful of Muslim extremists made the Christian world become more protective to the point that atheism is seen as more of a threat? Or has the last couple of generations with its movement toward greater freedoms and equality for minorities brought about this increased irritability towards free-thinkers?
Maybe its just that planet Earth appears to be sinking and the passengers on this boat are looking for someone to blame and toss overboard. “Hey, look at those atheists over there doing all their god-denying. Could be they’re to blame for god turning his back on us. Let’s lynch them!”