We have approval!
Campaign Updates January 28th, 2009We got word this morning that the TTC has approved our message:
Canadian Atheist Bus Campaign Advert
Yay! This means that we’ll be able to start the logistics of getting this on out and should have your atheist buses rolling out soon! Thanks again for your contributions!
January 28th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Great News!
Can we try and get Richard Dawkins to Toronto to kick off the ads?
January 28th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
He’ll be in Michigan (at MSU) on March 2nd…
January 28th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Yay! my only regret is that I won’t see them in Durham Region….
January 28th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Yes, I know he is in Michigan on March 2. I will be there. Got my ticket and I bought the atheistbus.ca T shirt!
It would be nice if a side trip to Toronto could be scheduled with the bus campaign kickoff!
January 28th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Great news. I’m not sure what the TTC will be able to confirm for you in terms of where the ads will appear, but it would be great if they give you information on which lines, etc., they’ll show up on. That way some of us can be at the ready with our cameras.
January 28th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Hi,
That is great news! I have just one suggestion. I think this was first suggested by Richard Dawkins himself and that is to make the message a little less hedonistic than it sounds. How about :”There is probably no god, now stop worrying and get on with you life”.
What do rest of the people think about this?
Best Of Luck,
Ameya
Mumbai, India
January 28th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Get Ariane Sherine to kick the ads off!
She started the whole ball rolling, is a great spokesperson, media savy, experienced giving interviews and represents a nice tie in to the whole international campaign.
January 28th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
congratulations!
Can we invite Maryam Namazi who is runnign a campaign in UK against Sharia Law? she coordinated a disscussion panel last December in London in this regard. She invited Richard Dawkins to this event and he went. Don’t wory about the cost, she might come to Toronto for International Women’s Day. Please check her website if you are interested. Just google Maryam Namazie.
January 28th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
Can you put some in the subway cars (atheistsubway.ca?!) too?
January 28th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
Great news, when can we hope to see them in Calgary? Both the Herald and Sun newspapers have carried articals and editorials. The local Catholic Bishop suggested april fools as a good day to start and says this is all about the coninued assult on christianity. Anyhow I hope to see pictures soon.
PS I like this
“There almost certianly is no god, now stop worrying and get on with you life” Slightly more edgy than “probubly” and less hedonistic.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:06 am
YAY!!!!!!
January 29th, 2009 at 12:53 am
This is excellent. As promised, now that we have approval, I just sent in my donation.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:17 am
You people are funny.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:23 am
This is excellent news!
Will you use the same colours and formats as the U.K. campaign? I hope so, because I suspect that this would help ‘brand recognition’ and give a sense of community with Ariane’s supporters? You’d be able to put up pictures of both campaigns with the same branding, which would give a sense of the worldwide campaign growing by leaps and bounds.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:45 am
“That is great news! I have just one suggestion. I think this was first suggested by Richard Dawkins himself and that is to make the message a little less hedonistic than it sounds. How about :”There is probably no god, now stop worrying and get on with you life”.”
Sounds good, I also am not a fan of the hedonistic implications of the last bit either. The original is still good though, especially with the “brand recognition” it will likely generate. I would change the first bit too, and combine it with yours, like this.
“There almost certainly is no god, now stop worrying and get on with your life”
January 29th, 2009 at 3:03 am
If theists want to believe that “enjoying life” is a negative thing, then let them. It is quite alright to enjoy life. What is the alternative?
January 29th, 2009 at 3:58 am
This is great news. Before it’s finalized, could we fix the grammar? How about something like “There’s probably no god. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life” or “There’s probably no god, so stop worrying and enjoy your life”? In any case, congrats on this wonderful initiative.
January 29th, 2009 at 5:58 am
I think having “this advert was paid for by public donations” printed on there as well is a brilliant idea.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
… probably?
January 29th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
I think the ad campaing is awesome!! I love it!!! Have the churches and others who are so upset over the ad caampaign ever thought that the churches who have signs outside of them with religious saying on them are offensive to people????
January 29th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
As a Christian who believes in everyone’s right to their own opinion, I have no problem with your ads on the TTC. I do have a question, though. Why do you assume that people who believe in God worry and don’t enjoy life? Personally, my life became much better and worry free when I became a Christian. Just wondering.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
What a great day! I am celebrating Thomas Paine’s birthday and now this fabulous Ad gets TTC approval. Can’t wait to see the ads in my downtown Toronto streets.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
This is brilliant, really. Everyone involved with this campaign is a hero.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Your success has already made it to Toronto’s most popular transit blog: http://SteveMunro.ca/?p=1779
January 29th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
You could use “This ad paid by public donation” if you need to shorten it. This should maximise the bang for your buck with the rest of the text.
I agree that adding a period after “god” would help the message (maybe with the addition of a comma after “Now”). Oh, wait, you already did the first part.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Sorry Chad #10, somehow I missed that you wrote the same thing!
January 29th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Great news. Perhaps “closet skeptics and atheists” will realize there are more like them – no shame in bowing to the alter of science.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Allow me to preface my comments by stating I do not ‘believe’ in God, but have ‘experienced’ what many spiritual/religious practiconers call ‘God’. Experience is much different than belief.
The simple fact that this advertisement states the word ‘probably’ is indicative of the fact that even Atheists cannot be sure of the presence of the super-natural, and at best, can only hazard an educated guess. The sad thing about these ads is that they use the word ‘God’ very loosely. What is God ? It seems to be an ambiguous, subjective word used to describe the phenomena of life itself.
If I had money to spend on advertisements on the TTC…this is what I’d put up:
“Enjoying one’s life all comes down to creating happiness in the world and being kind to other beings. We are all ‘God’, we all have ‘God’ nature, because we are the creators of our worlds. Go out into the world and create the paradise you wish to live in.”
Where these ads truly fail, is that they do nothing to unite people, and in a place like the TTC where people come and go, keep to themselves, hardly ever reach out to the brothers and sisters beside them out of fear and isolation and perceived difference, the kind of advertisements our culture needs to see are messages of unity, peace, love and yes, the celebration of God…of life…of our ability to ‘experience’ the magic of living. The stupidity of these ads alone is enough for the TTC to veto them.
January 29th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
Thank you!
They have already adopted this campaign in the U.K. and I’m glad to see it being done here!
January 29th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Thank you!
I have seen a similar campaign carried out in the U.K. and I am glad to see us follow suit!
January 29th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
The story was all over the local Calgary TV news last night. They said it’s a done deal with Calgary Transit and the signs will appear in two months. Is this correct?
January 29th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Now stop worrying and donate!!
January 29th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
any chance these ads will show up in the GTA suburbs like York Region, Mississauga or Brampton?
January 29th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
The campaign was all over Breakfast Television this morning, they also had a call in segment for it.
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_31470.aspx Article
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_31483.aspx
Viewer comments
January 29th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Oh, and you can vote on their online poll today….
on there front page, http://www.bttoronto.ca/
January 29th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
The article does say
“The Freethought Association now plans to use the tens of thousands of dollars in donations it raised through a site called http://www.atheistbus.ca to post similar ads in Calgary and Halifax.”
January 29th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Everybody go vote on the poll that Devon (above me) posted!
January 29th, 2009 at 9:07 pm
“As a Christian who believes in everyone’s right to their own opinion, I have no problem with your ads on the TTC. I do have a question, though. Why do you assume that people who believe in God worry and don’t enjoy life? Personally, my life became much better and worry free when I became a Christian. Just wondering.”
Patrick: This campaign started in the UK as a direct response to a series of bus ads referring to a website which stated that non-Christians would burn forever in eternal hell fire.
If belief in a supernatural deity brings comfort to you, you’re more than welcome to it. What we oppose is making statements that have absolutely no evidence to support them, and insisting that those who do not believe it are sinners who will be tortured and burned for all eternity.
This is simply nonsense.
January 29th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
I have mixed feelings on this.
On one hand it’s a great message and words to live by.
On the other hand I fear that now we’ve opened a flood gate for religious propaganda of all sorts to be put in our public transport system.
If I start seeing bible quotes and messages from jebus on TTC ads I’m blaming you guys.
January 29th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
i think this is wrong…you should be putting this stuff on public transit…my dad is a pastor and a bus driver…and he cannot drive the bus with this kind of stuff on it…
i’ll be fine with these adds….if you can prove it!
prove that there is no God…i dare you…if you can do this then i will gladly support you…but not until you give me cold hard facts that there is no God what so ever.
but until then…you guys need to stop with this …because you dont even know if it’s true…like seriously…this is rediculous!
all i want for you to do is to PROVE IT!
January 29th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
RE: Alex
I see that kind of thing all the time on the TTC.
January 29th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Heather: The principle is that “He (or she) who asserts must prove.” YOU cannot prove to me, for example, that there are no Leprechauns in Ireland. You would have to be able to see all or Ireland at once, behind every leaf and under every rock, before you could prove the little people do not exist. Even then I could say “Ah, but the wee people can make themselves invisible”.
Luckily, it is not up to people who disbelieve in the existence of Leprechauns to prove that they do NOT exist. It is up to those who tell you that Leprechauns exist to prove that they DO.
Otherwise, you would have to believe everything anyone says until you could disprove it. You would have to believe there are invisible dragons on the moon, or whatever else people want to allege. We would all go crazy.
You Christians have had 2000 years to come up with proof that God DOES exist, btw.
As to your father the Pastor, I assume he is a Protestant and a Christian? Would he object to an ad for the Muslim Koran on his bus? The Koran says clearly that Jesus is NOT the son of God. Would your father refuse to drive that bus?
January 29th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
If believing in God makes someone happy, fine. But it does not prove the belief is correct, does it? Millions of children are made happy by believing in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, but that does not make them real.
As George Bernard Shaw said, “The fact that a believer may be happier than a non-believer is no more to the point than the fact that a drunk may be happier than a sober man.” Shaw was an atheist, of course.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:53 am
What, no Leprechauns in Ireland! Next thing your going to tell me is that there is no Teapot orbiting in space around Mars or the Flying Spaghetti Monster is real…..
What am I going to dream about tonight?
January 30th, 2009 at 2:23 am
oops, meant isn’t real.
January 30th, 2009 at 3:21 am
Long live the bus ride
January 30th, 2009 at 4:06 am
I don’t think the add means to say that theists worry,
I think it means that even though there isn’t a god you don’t need to worry its not the end of the world if this is news to you…
January 31st, 2009 at 8:15 am
“do you mean!! there is no allah” ?
If that’s your case, then, WORRY,
is now!! yours
BEST of luck with YOUR cam-pain
January 31st, 2009 at 12:52 pm
This is great!
I hope the campaign spreads all over the world one day.
February 1st, 2009 at 5:53 am
If Bible Bus Stop ads can squeeze $5 a month out of people to keep their 200 bible verses in three languages and not have complaints, this simple ad should have the right to run on buses.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Its about time! This is a great thing. Its so good to see that other beliefs are finally aloud to be put in advertising and I can’t wait to see these buses in action! Awesome and keep up the good work I support it 100%
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:07 pm
Great work!!! its about time.
Is there a facebook group I can join?
Cliff
February 4th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
What dark days we are living in when we’re celebrating a campaign that suggests that there is no life other than what we see. What purpose is there to life if there is nothing to look forward to? How could any of the things we see today exist if not provided to us by God? You can only go so far back before you realize that there’s something more substantial than a big bang theory or some evolution theory. Think about it, really think about it. I will keep you all in my prayers. God Bless.
February 4th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
In God We Trust: I look at the ads in terms of Imagination…they’re expressing their imaginations, from whence everything springs, our hopes, desires, fears, anxieties, and beliefs…
And each of us has our own comfort levels, things that we hold to be true, things we hold not to be true, etc — part of the joy in living in a multicultural etc country is that we all don’t believe the same things, we all aren’t comforted by the same things, yet we all live together and help each other out when needed :3
Try thinking of it as an engagement with the Deep Meat of reality, the part that we experience: our Imaginations :3
February 4th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
In God We Trust said, “Think about it, really think about it.”
Just thinking about things without examining the evidence frequently results in wrong conclusions. If you think about it you would expect heavier objects to fall faster then lighter ones and people believed that for hundreds of years, but if you do an experiment you’ll find that they don’t.
If you look at the evidence, big bang theory and evolution theory do explain all of the things we see today exist. There are still some gaps, but those are to be expected when trying to figure out exactly happens millions and billions of years ago and are being filled in at a steady rate.
February 4th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Granted, I hear what you’re saying about the scientific reasoning, but I look at it within the scope of nature’s own beauty: how do we know wind exists? We can’t physically touch it, hold onto it or even see it! We know it exists through its affects on the things around us – the trees, the leaves, etc. Similarly, I know God exists for the very same reasons. I see His affects on the people around me although even though I can’t physically see or touch Him myself. Thanks for listening.
February 5th, 2009 at 3:40 am
We know the wind the exists by the effect it has. It can be measured, tested and to a large extent predicted. We have a good understanding of what causes it.
How do you measure the effects of God? How do you identify which effects are cause by Him and which the result of natural processes?
February 5th, 2009 at 3:52 am
Darwin – neither the big bang theory nor the evolutionary theory of origins actually explains anything. The only aspect of evolution that can be substantiated is natural selection within information that already exists in the gene pool. There is not a single substantiated example of new information being added to the gene pool through a mutation (which is the mechanism proposed by evolutionists for the evolution from simpler to more complex forms of life). Even mutations that seem to have adaptive value – rare though they are, they do happen – never add new information. And what about the transitional forms – how would they have survived? But that’s another whole topic, no room to do it justice here. Suffice it to say that evolutionary theory is actually so full of holes it’s amazing that anyone believes it. It totally contradicts the 2nd law of thermodynamics. It is simply a belief system, a faith position, just like belief in God.
February 5th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Why wouldn’t mutations that have adaptive value not add new information? Their source may have been random, but natural selection means that only successful changes carry on.
Which transitional forms would not have survived?
The 2nd law of thermodynamics only applies to closed systems. The Earth receives a steady stream of energy from the Sun. Admittedly it will run out in a few billion years and life on Earth will collapse, but we’ve got a ways to go until then.
February 5th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
On mutations that have adaptive value not adding new information – I’m saying that observation of mutations that actually occur in the present shows that they always involve a modification of information that already exists in the genetic code, not adding new information. This is micro evolution not macro evolution. It explains how natural selection works within existing species but does not explain, for example, how a fish could become an amphibian.
As for transitional forms not surviving, the fossil record does not contain a single substantiated example of a “missing link”. The ones that were trumpeted as examples of this have all been disproven. Think about it – if new developments (a fin becoming a leg) were to happen by random mutation, how likely is it that the new form of life would survive? There’d be such a high percentage of failures. Probability theory alone shows that goo-to-you evolution is highly improbable and the evidence doesn’t support it. It’s a faith position, not provable science. Of course creationism isn’t provable either, but we never claimed it was. Still I maintain that the available evidence much more strongly supports creation than evolution. But of course, you have the right to your point of view – no argument there from me. Because I believe that people are made in the image of God, they are made with the right to choose …
February 6th, 2009 at 7:11 am
Michel, gotta love GBS. That man sure did struggle with “the Human Condition” and wrote some fine bits of literature to help us. There’s even an ‘ism’ created around him — Shavianism. Some kind of vital force in universe. What a man.
Wisdom Hunter — I think that nothing can give us certainty, certainty is a human creation and that any tools we have (ideas, beliefs, perceptions, values, etc) are there for us to explore reality with. Evolution, while it is fallible, I think is the current best tool to examine certain aspects of the world with — like any good theory, it predicts. Now, I don’t know aboot your Creationism, but if it is religion, then is a whole separate critter from Evolution. They aren’t even the same tools — they both look at completely different aspects of existence. One helps with the World, the other is important to People. Perhaps complementary, but different.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
There are known “missing links”. Some are still around today, like the Lungfish a fish that can beath air after it’s pond has dried up and haves lobed fins for moving and digging on land.
There may be a high percentage of failure, but with thousands to millions of individuals over millions of generations (many species live one year or less so generations are much shorter then in humans). That is billions or trillions of chances to make improvements. Do you have numbers to back up your statical claims?
February 6th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
If you check out the truth about the lungfish you’ll find that it shows evidence of design – it is no evolutionary accident. See the following articles :
http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/876/
http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/5651/
As for the issue of statistics and probability – first a comment from me, then some in-depth analysis from an expert.
My comment: It takes a lot more faith to believe in spontaneous generation of complexity and order from disorder than it does to believe in creation. I’m a computer scientist and I know that no matter how many keystrokes I type, they will organize themselves into logical readable useful information unless I impose some external order and intelligence.
For some in-depth analysis by Jonathan Sarfati, a PhD in physical chemistry, have a look at this :
http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/3283/
The author, by the way, is a former atheist …
February 6th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Darwin – sorry – I realize I didn’t address the “missing link” issue directly in my reply to your last comment. I meant to do this but the referenced articles do so, especially the first one.
February 6th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Which referenced articles? I see no links in your posts.
February 6th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
The post with the links is still awaiting moderation.
February 6th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Wisdom Hunter…explain then why cetaceans have ‘Flippers’ that contain all the structural components of a terrestrial mammal’s leg?..The whale has vestigial toe bones. That is but one example. Secondly, I would suggest that if all species were created separately…then God has a sick sense of humour…That tape worm was just a bad idea.
You talk of ‘Micro-evolution’ vs ‘Macro-evolution’. I think human languages are a good example to use to explain how one species turns into another.
The ‘genes’ of the language are in the sequences of letters used. Some 3000 years ago, the ‘genes’ were set up in a way to give Latin..but as time passed, new Gene’s were introduced from other populations, populations of latin speaking people got isolated from each other, some pronunciations changed, new meanings were given to existing words and different populations invented new words to represent various novel concepts….as time continued to roll on, these various populations continued to propagate their unique way of speaking via descent, and subsequent generations continued to introduce new concepts, creating new words to represent these concepts. These dialects, with time, differentiated to a point where they split off to form entire new languages (species)…Hence the current presence of Spanish, Italian, French, Portuguese.
Even now, within Linguistic clades, we see diversification. Quebec French is very different from Parisian french despite the fact that they only diverged from each other some four hundred years ago…In fact, many Parisians complain that they cannot understand Quebecers…Perhaps one day, Quebec’s official language may not be considered to be French anymore.
So you see, in a little over 3000 years, latin evolved ancestor evolved into several descendant langauges, each keeping some characteristics of the common ancestor, but sufficiently different to be considered distinct from the common ancestor as well as each other. And all that without anyone intending it to happen that way.
Now, in the text above, replace ‘language’ by ‘species’
and spread the time out over Billions of years rather than mere thousands of years (3.4 billion years is the generally accepted hypothesis) and it begins to make sense…no?
Furthermore, if ‘Macro-evolution’ were impossible, one could not expect to be genetic similarities between species. However, science has been demonstrating for years that mammal species are more similar to each other genetically than they are to Birds or reptiles…and that the Carnivora are more similar to each other than they are with other mammals such as artiodactyla or perissodactyla.
In fact, the more phenotypic traits shared between two species, the more likely that they will also share similar genetic features (in general…this does not preclude the possibility of independant evolution of similar functional traits)…and since genes are transmitted from generation to generation, this is very much in line with the ‘modification through descent’ described in the linguistic example.
You may wish to read up on Gould and Lewontin’s work on punctuated equilibrium which explains the changes in evolutionary rate. This brings the interaction between genetics and environment into perspective…explaining potential accelerations and decelerations in evolutionary change.
So, unless you wish to ignore the hundreds of thousands of scientifically sound studies that, through the process of falsification of hypotheses, have provided rock-solid evidence in support of evolution through natural selection, I suggest that you should be doubting your belief in creation by now.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Oh..and wisdom hunter…here’s some more reading for you:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html#thermo
February 6th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Richard – as I said, the post that addresses these issues is awaiting moderation. However the bottom line is that even honest evolutionists admit that they cannot come up with verifiable missing links. Most evolutionary science texts present imaginary scenarios as if they were facts, show drawings that look like missing links, and then call them missing links. Dr. Colin Paterson, former senior paleontoligist at the British Museum of Natural History, was a little more honest.
Creationist Luther Sunderland wrote to Dr Patterson inquiring why he had not shown one single photograph of a transitional fossil in his book. Patterson then wrote back with the following amazing confession which was reproduced, in its entirety, in Sunderland’s book Darwin’s Enigma:
‘I fully agree with your comments on the lack of direct illustration of evolutionary transitions in my book. If I knew of any, fossil or living, I would certainly have included them. You suggest that an artist should be used to visualise such transformations, but where would he get the information from? I could not, honestly, provide it, and if I were to leave it to artistic licence, would that not mislead the reader?’
He went on to say:
‘Yet Gould [Stephen J. Gould—the now deceased professor of paleontology from Harvard University] and the American Museum people are hard to contradict when they say there are no transitional fossils. … You say that I should at least “show a photo of the fossil from which each type of organism was derived.” I will lay it on the line—there is not one such fossil for which one could make a watertight argument.’
If I add the URL again, I’m afraid it may cause my post not to be accepted – but this quotation comes directly from a source that I am able to reference and substantiate. Contact me by e-mail if you want the reference.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
Wisdom Hunter…you conveniently ignored everything i and everyone else here has presented and I am beginning to believe that you wouldn,t recognize evidence if it hit you on the head…but here’s a good summary of transitional forms:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html
February 6th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
One more thought – on enjoying your life – there have been studies showing that practising believers in Christ, contrary to the popular caricature of us, are actually happier than the majority of the population. Anyway, I have no problem with you guys publicizing your position. Feel free – in the end it is a debate that is impossible to win by rational argument alone. It’s all about faith – evolutionary/atheist faith or theistic faith.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
Wisdom hunter…of course religious people can be happier…ignorance is bliss.
February 6th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Then why so glum!
February 6th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
Ah…you’re less ignorant because you’ve seen the ‘light’ of religious fervor and cannot admit that you spend all your time trying to poke holes in solid theory without realizing that your God of the gaps position is a house of cards! Well, staring at the sun for too long can blind any man…But that would infer that energy is coming from somewhere outside of the Earth…which means that your 2nd Law of thermodynamics argument is false…
Here’s ywhat I suspect your true position is: If the science disagrees with scripture (or in this case, with your understanding of the way the world works) then the science is necessarily wrong (despite the evidence because the scientists made it all up) because I cannot possibly be wrong.
I will not debate with you any longer because you purposely ignore anything you disagree with and then accuse other of ignorance? It is not true debate…it is like talking to a stone. Please evolve.
February 6th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
It’s unlikely that anyone on this site would be moved by the quote-mined statements provided by Wisdom Hunter above, but just in case there is, you might want to check out the following link that provides a bit of context and explanation about Dr. Patterson’s words:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/patterson.html
Also, I’m wondering if Wisdom Hunter could provide us with the definition of ‘information’ that he is using with regards to mutations/evolution.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:27 am
Mark X: bang up job…However, I truly doubt that it will affect Wisdon Hunter in any way. For him, it’s not about truth, it’s about being right. He certainly doesn’t wear his pseudonym very well.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:19 am
More food for thought for WH
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/transitional.html